December 17, 2018, 08:21:41 am

Author Topic: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants  (Read 8028 times)

Offline Feelgood

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2011, 12:54:27 am »
The german army had multiple "standard" guns

No they didn't? What point are you trying to make?

"Standard" rifle was the Mauser Kar98, "standard" SMG was the MP40.
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Offline Buzzob

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2011, 06:42:07 am »
Well, multiple "standard issued" guns G43 and the STG/MP 44
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Offline Yoroiden

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2011, 09:22:28 am »
No, the Gewehr 43 was not a standard issue item for the Germans. Perhaps some hoped it would be someday, but except for certain special/elite-type units (and specialist units tend to get specialist equipment), production levels didn't allow it to be much more than a specialist weapon.

Nor was the Sturmgewehr 44. Like the Gewehr 43, it was essentially a specialist weapon. Again, certain units could have a much higher number issued to them, but production rates never reached a level where either could become "standard" issue.

The only German military organization of WW2 where the Mauser 98k wasn't the standard rifle was the Volksstrum (militia), simply because the weapons they received were mostly leftovers and captured items from a variety of sources. The most common weapon being the Italian Carcano rifle.
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Offline Feelgood

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2011, 10:23:13 am »
The Gewehr 43 was a good gun, but not near as reliable as the Kar98. The STG44 was a great assault rifle and the first of its kind, but its got such a late production start, when Germany's production areas were under bombsights night and day, that it never reached any great numbers. Roughly 400,000 were produced, and MAYBE half of those made it to front-line units.
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Offline Q Dawg89

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2011, 04:09:56 pm »
By sheer luck i just happen to come across this minutes after reading this thread:
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/zeta-lab-real-wood-and-full-steel-mosin-nagant-carbine-w-bayonet-v2.html

It's not perfect, but if you really want it to look good, you could gut the internals and stuff them into a cheap $70 real steel mosin nagant.
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Offline Buzzob

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2011, 04:11:57 pm »
O.k. I thought that the Gewehr was intended to be the standard as was the STG, but I guess I was wrong.
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Offline Jake512

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2011, 04:54:00 pm »
By sheer luck i just happen to come across this minutes after reading this thread:
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/zeta-lab-real-wood-and-full-steel-mosin-nagant-carbine-w-bayonet-v2.html

It's not perfect, but if you really want it to look good, you could gut the internals and stuff them into a cheap $70 real steel mosin nagant.

That looks pretty nice,Could I really get the real steel parts for that cheap? The only problem is it looks like It may be hard to reload during a game, but at that price I am tempted to buy one at some point
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Offline Feelgood

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2011, 04:57:29 pm »
O.k. I thought that the Gewehr was intended to be the standard as was the STG, but I guess I was wrong.

Intentions and reality are not the same thing. It took Wehrmacht and SS generals a long time to convince Hitler to produce the STG44, he was fully against it.


My opinion? Had time and resources not been constraints, it SHOULD have been standard. Hitler wanted to rule the world with a bolt-action rifle and a machinegun.
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Offline Robster

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2011, 05:05:09 pm »
It took Wehrmacht and SS generals a long time to convince Hitler to produce the STG44, he was fully against it.
While in development, and even for a while after its introduction, it was listed as a machine pistol, to avoid causing controversy with Hitler.
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Offline Q Dawg89

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2011, 08:33:13 am »

That looks pretty nice,Could I really get the real steel parts for that cheap? The only problem is it looks like It may be hard to reload during a game, but at that price I am tempted to buy one at some point

At the last gunshow i went to, i saw numerous mosin nagants going for under $80 (i was very tempted to pick a few up). The only problem with the airsoft mosin nagant is that it's a spring gun, and although there is nothing wrong with spring bolt action rifles, the price seems quite high for one. Then again, I have never seen a production airsoft mosin nagant.
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Offline Redtail

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2011, 01:37:36 pm »
THey had an M91 PU out and in production, but it cost $1,200 and was a crap performer. The cheaper one is supposed to be a clone thereof, and costs 1/4 as much. Still steep for me, but encouraging.

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Offline Pardus

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2011, 10:59:30 am »
The german army had multiple "standard" guns

No they didn't? What point are you trying to make?

"Standard" rifle was the Mauser Kar98, "standard" SMG was the MP40.

The german army also used captured weapons, officially adopting them as arms of Wehrmaht. For example: PPSh41 was the SECOND most used SMG in Wehrmacht (MP18 was the third). SVT-40 were used by germans and finns alike. In fact SVT-40 was bases for G43. So you can logically go "Waffen SS" with an SVT or PPSh
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Offline colhesler

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2011, 09:53:40 am »
The german army had multiple "standard" guns

No they didn't? What point are you trying to make?

"Standard" rifle was the Mauser Kar98, "standard" SMG was the MP40.

The german army also used captured weapons, officially adopting them as arms of Wehrmaht. For example: PPSh41 was the SECOND most used SMG in Wehrmacht (MP18 was the third). SVT-40 were used by germans and finns alike. In fact SVT-40 was bases for G43. So you can logically go "Waffen SS" with an SVT or PPSh

Just some photographic evidence
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Offline colhesler

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2011, 10:03:36 am »
However, most German Infantrymen received kar98's as that was the most readily available rifle in mass numbers. In fact every country's land forces were officially using bolt action rifles except the USA. I was at the national WWII museum last year and one of the facts I recall stated that for every submachine gunner there were about 300 carrying regular rifles. Most troops got the standard issue rifle with the exception of a few who received a sumbachine gun (usually higher ranking nco's or officers), and those with other assignments like a machine gun crew. In fact, the German army's organization was centered around their machine gun crews. For comparison an American infantry company had 2 30cals while a German company had 15 mg42s.

So if you want to go for the "I am an average grunt" look, get a bolt action rifle. Too many people running an mp40 or a thompson.
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Offline Pardus

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Re: Kar98ks and Mosin Nagants
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2011, 09:23:40 pm »
Well, here is some cold hard facts.
1. SVT-40. Most Soviet Soldiers considered it unreliable. Heer and SS loved it. Weird? Not really. You need to go back to 1914. At that time, under Tzars, the Russia literacy rate was 34%. Germany had 99%. Russia didn't even produce their own copper wire or heavy artillery. They could not produce enough mosin nagant rifles, hence they ordered Winchester M1895 for their cavalry. They also planned to arm 1 out of ever 10 soldier with a halberd for trench warfare, rather then rifle. (Not enough rifles). Russia produced first heavy bombers: Illya Murometz. Except that they could not produce their own aircraft engines. Same with most high tech equipment. Under Tzars, the Russia who was a Superpower in 1812, became a 3rd world country - agrarian, backwards. When Stalin took power he said "The most advanced Capitalist countries have surged ahead of us by 50-100 years, we need to catch up to them in 20 years or we shall be destroyed" Soviets ALMOST made it. By 1941, the literacy rate was close to 85%, however there was a HUGE shortage of high skilled technical specialists. Germans often wrote that Russian workers when treated well were very inventive, but lacked technical knowledge and worked mostly on intuition. In any case, average Russian infantryman had 6 years of schooling. That was NOT enough to service the SVT-40. However average GERMAN had 10 years of schooling and then at least 2 years of vocational training. They had NO problems keeping SVT functional. Soviet ELITE units (Naval Infantry and Airborne) never complained about SVT, because they consisted of more educated and better trained personel.
2) G43 in many was was a copy of SVT-40, the entire gas system is a direct copy. However it was if anything even less reliable.
3) STG-44 despite being a revolutionary weapon, and maybe because it was one had reliability problems, sometimes attributed to new ammunition. I have red that it was less reliable then MP40 or MG42. In fact, after studying it after War, american engineers considered it "Far from satisfactory". STG44 had another very specific problem - long magazine made it difficult to fire from prone position - you had to expose yourself more.
4) Germans had other rifles G41 (W) and G41(M), those were very unreliable and expensive to produce.

Sometimes it makes me wonder who really won that war. Russian army is wearing Flecktarn and Oakleaf camo. Mercedes, BMW and Simmens equipment is considered to be a sign of prestige. Russian sub bears a slogan "My Honor is Loyalty". Russian youth organization borrows its code heavily from Hitlerjugend (minus racial stuff).
Some people say that they can outrun me. Maybe.... Maybe... But I have yet to see one who can outrun a bullet