Deception in airsoft
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Author Topic: Deception in airsoft  (Read 1468 times)

CRUSADER

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2009, 02:03:36 AM »

So why 1920? why not 1921?
lol i dont know
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onyx

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2009, 06:16:42 AM »

I don't like Sun Tzu. When challenged to turn royal concubines into soldiers, he killed two of the concubines to show that he wasn't joking around. Anyone who leads by fear like that is a terrible commander.
He was an excellent commander and military strategist.  Whether or not he was an excellent man by our standards is what your example pertains to.

Not exactly, he probably tried to turn the concubines into soldiers the way he would turn a normal man into a soldier. IMO this reflects his behavior as a military commander, not just as a man. Plus on the topic of him being a great strategist, IMO he basically wrote a book with many vague and broad tactics that wouldn't have taken a military genius to figure out and apply, let alone write about.  Anyway I don't truly trust anything history books say before the year 1920. I understand this contradicts my original post but I was just stating what is commonly believed.
What is commonly believed isn't always by those who have read and studied The Art of War and the man who wrote it.

The harem of concubines he was assigned to train ended up being highly successful as they followed his orders once he executed those two.  Much of the soldiers he trained were normal men, and over his lifetime, he had victory after victory, usually against overwhelming odds.  His writings are vague, but it is best that way as it can be molded to fit the battle.  His 7 conditions to determine victory on the battlefield seem obvious, including Strength of the Armies, Number of Soldiers, Commander's skill, Amount of Training etc., but it was the first to put it all into writing. It is a basic text that encompasses all aspects of military strategy and can be adapted to every situation to some degree.

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CRUSADER

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2009, 12:49:23 AM »

I don't like Sun Tzu. When challenged to turn royal concubines into soldiers, he killed two of the concubines to show that he wasn't joking around. Anyone who leads by fear like that is a terrible commander.
He was an excellent commander and military strategist.  Whether or not he was an excellent man by our standards is what your example pertains to.

Not exactly, he probably tried to turn the concubines into soldiers the way he would turn a normal man into a soldier. IMO this reflects his behavior as a military commander, not just as a man. Plus on the topic of him being a great strategist, IMO he basically wrote a book with many vague and broad tactics that wouldn't have taken a military genius to figure out and apply, let alone write about.  Anyway I don't truly trust anything history books say before the year 1920. I understand this contradicts my original post but I was just stating what is commonly believed.
What is commonly believed isn't always by those who have read and studied The Art of War and the man who wrote it.

The harem of concubines he was assigned to train ended up being highly successful as they followed his orders once he executed those two.  Much of the soldiers he trained were normal men, and over his lifetime, he had victory after victory, usually against overwhelming odds.  His writings are vague, but it is best that way as it can be molded to fit the battle.  His 7 conditions to determine victory on the battlefield seem obvious, including Strength of the Armies, Number of Soldiers, Commander's skill, Amount of Training etc., but it was the first to put it all into writing. It is a basic text that encompasses all aspects of military strategy and can be adapted to every situation to some degree.
Well of course Sun Tzu was the first to actually put it all into text, I just disgree with the idea that he is some kind of god who enlightened the world to the idea of military tactics.
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Quote from: Rosco Benson
Of course the 1911 is an outdated design. It came from an era when weapons were designed to win fights, not to avoid product liability lawsuits.

Yoroiden

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2009, 01:52:28 AM »

It's not so much that he's some kind of God of Military Strategy and created all strategy. It's more that he wrote a book on tactics, real combat leaders find that much of it still works today, so why reinvent the wheel?

But his isn't the only book taught.

There are plenty of military leaders from the old days that are still studied, it's not like Sun Tzu is the only one. Alexander the Great, Hannibal, Robert E. Lee, Napoleon, Erwin Rommel, are just a few great commanders that modern leaders read about.

Heck, General Carl von Clausewitz is often regarded as being the father of modern strategic study.
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SoDchicken

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2009, 01:13:53 AM »

i have used my tongue to get myself out of quite a few situations so although most of the book is not applicable you can still use deception (within reason Ie dont wear dead rags when your alive
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redtail

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2009, 03:56:13 AM »

I've done that, accidentally.

THat being said, a little necrotic.
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neato9611

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2009, 11:07:42 PM »

I have to agree with the common consensus here, The Art of War is a good book for the strategist but a great deal of the content simply doesn't apply to airsoft, sans the troop movement and concealment. However, most of that is also used in the terms of hiding entire regiments instead of, say, a fireteam sized force. I do think some of the stuff is useful, like looking for wildlife signs so show where enemies are (as in seeing a flock of birds immediately take flight could mean enemy movement startled them).

Back to deception: I have done a few very, very lightly deceiving things. For instance, if there is a patrol or small group of enemies passing near me, I will turn so that they cannot readily see my armband if there is significant chance of me being caught even though it is plainly visible from a certain point of view. Also, at a paintball scenario I was once deep behind their lines and I was crawling up on a group of 6 guys casually chitchatting. Upon hearing crackling twigs behind me, I slowly slid my weapon (with blue ribbon attached) under me as they called "RED OR BLUE!?!?" over and over. Turns out they were screaming at the cameraman who just wanted a photo op.
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Tsun

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2009, 11:24:26 PM »

Some people know me as the pistol guy I used (not that long ago) to run around with a WE hi capa with a large mock supressor on the front and my inspiration was the spy!

Well I sometimes had the opportunity to flank people so well I would get on their side of the field behind them. Well one game I did that And My gun wasn't working so well (it was cold) and nothing came out when I shot it so I walked up to the only guy I saw there asked him what team he was on and then bang killed him and walked away. It would have been more epic if I had a plastic butterfly knife.

deception works when theres no clear indication of teams thats what uniforms are for I guess.
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Thes Nazud

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2010, 11:41:31 PM »

I'm not sure what you mean by "spies and indirect skirmishes," but there's plenty of room in airsoft for being a sneaky little bastard, provided you follow the rules and don't do anything that could compromise safety.

Lying about being out is never good.  Wearing a dead rag when you aren't dead so that you can gather intelligence or get the drop on someone is never okay, and doing things like walking around holding your gun above your head (some people don't have dead rags and do that to let people know they are out)  or actually saying "I'm out" when you're not is also not cool.  Airsoft is a sport of honor blah blah blah, so people will tend to take your word for it and not shoot you to spare you potentially unnecessary pain, and taking advantage of that by lying makes people angry and leads to problems.
It's also not advisable to remove or hide any team identification (colored armbands or whatever) or putting on that of another team's in order to confuse people (it also may be against the rules of the game).  It leads to an increase in friendly-fire incidents (which are usually too high to begin with) and makes the game more frustrating.  There would only be exceptions to this when allowed by the game organizer.  For instance, a few years ago I was on a squad who was given the armbands of the opposing team and sent to assassinate their leader.  This was all within the scenario and was planned by the event organizer.

I've done some underhanded stuff, but I do it without breaking rules or directly lying.  For example, it was pretty late in the game and I was tired, so I was walking from one side of the field to the other to meet up with some people, just walking down the main trail, gun slung over my shoulder and not caring if I got shot.  I came around a corner and found two enemies walking down the path towards me.  They pointed their guns at me, but since I was acting so casual they didn't shoot.  I kept walking and gave them the "I'm cool" nod as we passed.  Then I took out my pistol, watched them walk until they were 15 feet away, and shot them both in the back.
Last year some people were able to walk into the Cartel base and bang-kill a bunch of guys by simply slinging their guns and walking towards the base looking kind of sheepish.  They didn't lie about what side they were on, they didn't lie and indicate that they were out, they just didn't acted passively and no one bothered to question them.

Not sure if that's the kind of thing you were talking about.  I haven't read the book.


That sounds like something I'd do with spring pistols...   Lol
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DrRockso94

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2010, 01:18:28 AM »

wow, necro much.
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USMCxRULEZ

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2010, 04:26:31 PM »

Returning back to the topic of this discussion, and not the year in which to pay attention to history books, there are certain levels of deception that are allowed. Pretending your out makes you an asshole to everyone even if you win the game for your team, but things like sneaking around are fine. Such as if your playing 10 to a team its perfectly fine to send seven off and have the other 3 ambush them is fine, or sending 1 or 2 people off alone and having them make a lot of noise is fine. It's small things like that that give your team the upper hand while keeping it fun for everyone
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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2010, 08:31:20 PM »

Returning back to the topic of this discussion, and not the year in which to pay attention to history books, there are certain levels of deception that are allowed. Pretending your out makes you an asshole to everyone even if you win the game for your team, but things like sneaking around are fine. Such as if your playing 10 to a team its perfectly fine to send seven off and have the other 3 ambush them is fine, or sending 1 or 2 people off alone and having them make a lot of noise is fine. It's small things like that that give your team the upper hand while keeping it fun for everyone
I agree and Necro posting shouldn't really matter on this kind of subject since old members leave and new members come.  who knows they may even add some more insight to the subject.
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Kaspar825

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2010, 08:38:35 PM »

Returning back to the topic of this discussion, and not the year in which to pay attention to history books, there are certain levels of deception that are allowed. Pretending your out makes you an asshole to everyone even if you win the game for your team, but things like sneaking around are fine. Such as if your playing 10 to a team its perfectly fine to send seven off and have the other 3 ambush them is fine, or sending 1 or 2 people off alone and having them make a lot of noise is fine. It's small things like that that give your team the upper hand while keeping it fun for everyone

That's like what they did at my last game they sent one guy to stay on the road and we thought he was coming to talk to us but when we looked back at the main group ok guys they were very close to us. So they used him as a form of deception.
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Kyllian

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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2010, 09:14:26 PM »

Pretending your out makes you an asshole to everyone even if you win the game for your team
As far as I'm concerned, if someone is walking around with a dead rag on then takes it off going "bang your're dead" he can go f*** himself.
Unless there's supposed to be zombies in the game, you don't get kills by walking around as a dead man
If a player wants to fake being dead, fine, just don't move from your spot
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Re: Deception in airsoft
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2010, 09:18:18 PM »

Deception? I wear my pants on my head and tell everyone I just escaped from the zoo...
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